My question is: In the beginning when God created man, was man perfect? It is generally agreed that man in the beginning, before the fall, was perfect. That being true, then what was man's body like?
What kind of tissue, or to what could you compare our original bodies to. In a state of perfection surely means something different than what we now are because we definitely are not perfect now.
The scriptures don't say exactly what the body was like before the fall. They were, no doubt, perfect in that they did not have genetic faults and mutations that have come since then. Whether they would have died physically is open to question. Genesis 3:19 says, "In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return." God doesn't specify whether that last phrase was part of the curse or would have been his natural fate without the fall.
It is generally conceded that the "death" implied in the command not to eat of the tree was a spiritual death, because they did not immediately die physically. Many believe that it also included the beginning of decay, but that is not certain.
I don't believe man's body was basically different before the fall than after. There is nothing in the text to indicate that. If God can make it so that ordinary linen and leather doesn't wear out (Deut 29:5), he could have made it so that man's body, in the same form we have it now, was not subject to wear. This is my own opinion, however, as there is nothing in scripture to support this.
The only time I find in scripture that speaks of a different kind of body is not addressing the past body, but a future one. That is 1 Corinthians 15:35-50.
The questioner responded as follows:
It seems to me that if we were, that is our first parents, were created in God's image and God is perfect, our first parents had to be perfect.
It would not have been possible for God to create imperfection, let me rephrase that, it doesn't seem likely that God would have created imperfection.
That being the case, wouldn't our original bodies, that is the bodies of our first parents, have been something on the order of Christ's resurrected body? That is they would have had some abilities that we don't now possess because of the fall.
That is possible. The scriptures don't say anything that directly bears on that, so it is just speculation.
Even if they were perfect and not subject to decay like ours, that would not imply abilities we do not possess (other than not dying). Jesus was able to perform miracles after his resurrection; but he could do them before. He referred to his body as if it was the same as that before he was raised (Lk 24:36-43). There is no indication that Adam and Eve were able to do anything unusual before the fall.
The questioner further responded as follows:
Of course it is speculation whenever you try to conceive what perfection really is.
You might be asking me what difference does it make since we are here and our purpose is to get out of here safely. But my question is why did first man get to say no to God, by disobedience, but the rest of us do not have that original choice. That means that the our first parents had to do something so catastrophic that it trapped the rest of us into a situation that we can not get out of by ourselves. Merely disobeying seems like it is not enough to cause tragedy by itself, but the type of disobedience, and just eating an apple (fruit), to symbolize disobedience does not explain, what really happened. Therefore, speculation as to what might have happened is about the best we can do. It seems to me if we understood how and what really happened, it would make understanding what we must do in order to be saved, somewhat easier. Not easier for those of us who understand our position perhaps, but easier for those of us who refuse to accept the position of Christianity. Those who have turned off the theologians and ministers. Those who have said butt out of my life, leave me alone and let me do what I want to do when I want to do it, regardless of what it is. It is none of your business and it has no affect on you.
It is these people and there are a lot of them, who need to understand what their purpose is and what they are doing here. I am thinking if I can explain in a scientific manner what happened, maybe they would see the light. Science and Christianity has and is coming closer together in some instances, and maybe they will come to understand why Jesus had to come. For example, I believe that everything affects us, every thought, every word and every action has an affect on us. But it only affects us in one of two ways, it either has a positive affect on us or it has a negative affect on us as a whole. You think, do, or say something negative and it will affect all of us in a negative way. On the other hand, think, do, or say something positive and it will elevate us, raise us up, have a positive affect on us all. That is why the statement that whatever I want to do to make myself happy is none of your business and has no affect on you, is a false statement and can be proven to be false. And this can be supported by scientific data.
I hope I haven't bored you.
I'm not sure that I buy the premise that the rest of us after Adam and Eve do not have the original choice. I grant that "by one man sin entered into the world," (Rom 5:12) and death by that sin. But I do not believe that I am guilty of Adam's sin. "The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him." (Ezek 18:20) I do not believe that I had no choice but to sin. I made the same choice as Eve and Adam. Every man but one has made the choice. But it has been our choice, each individually. That we all have made the wrong choice says something about the power of sin and Satan. But I don't believe that God would hold me accountable for something over which I had no choice. Again, Ezekiel 18 (the whole chapter) applies.
I also disagree that the situation in which they ate of the fruit does not explain what really happened. God gave man a choice. Man chose the wrong option. Whether it be eating a fruit or murder, the process is the same. In fact, the "mere" eating of a fruit shows how seriously God looks at sin. It doesn't have to be a "major" sin like theft. It can be a "minor" sin like lying, eating the forbidden fruit, or even thinking wrong thoughts. "Thou shalt not covet" is the only internal sin in the ten commandments to the Jews. It is the one that can not be seen by others. But it is a sin, nevertheless.
There may be some who would be convinced by scientific data of the necessity of Jesus' death. But those would be few. It is not the scientific data that will make true believers of anyone. "And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God." (1 Cor 2:4-5) "For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this world? Hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe." (1 Cor 1:17-21) It is the power of the gospel that will convince men (Rom 1:16) and not the wisdom of science. True science demands that one believe in God, but will never deal with the questions of sin and salvation.